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patelparag
(@patelparag)
Active Member Customer
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 17
Topic starter  

I'm integrating a mini Ikon2/Hobbywing Flyfun 120A/Frsky X6R. I have two problems:

The Ikon/Rx is integrated using the s.bus/s.port connection. Servos work, ESC/Throttle works, telemetry is reported from the Ikon to the Rx/Tx. The Ikon was just updated to the latest f/w (39?), and the Rx is running ACCST 2.1 (although I tested it with another Rx/ACCST 1.0), ESC configured for 6S, no soft start, no cutoff voltage. Helicopter is fully setup.

1. As long as I do not connect the ESC telemetry cable, the governor starts and works (except as below). As soon as I connect the telemetry cable (@ ch5 or ch6), the ESC fails to initialize (I get the first ESC beep, but I don't get the cell count, or the "Ready" beep). Ikon is setup for Hobbywing ESC Telemetry...This has been reproduced with two different ESCs. What am I doing wrong?

2. I set the bailout timer to 10 seconds, and enabled bailout in all the setups. In all cases, on throttle enable, there is a 10ish second delay, and the motor spools up slowly/soft start. If I disable the throttle and immediately re-enable it, then the motor spools down to a full stop, and waits for the delay time before restarting slowly. a. How do I get rid of the delay? b. how to I get the fast spool up during bailout?


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fabrice.loits
(@fabrice-loits)
Active Member Customer
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 13
 

Good morning. For your engine delay, in stage 13 of the brain "flight mode" it is necessary to notch the governor mode for all flight styles.


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patelparag
(@patelparag)
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Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 17
Topic starter  

Thanks for the suggestion, both "use governor" and "use bailout timer" are checked, governor works (I get the correct headspeed), but there is a delay in initial spool up, and the bailout (immediate spool up) doesn't work.

Unchecking "use bailout timer" doesn't appear to change the way it functions, either the spool up delay, or bailout.


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BrainDev
(@customercare)
Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 546
 

If this is the first time you try to connect the ESC telemetry signals to the CH6 connector, and when you connect the telemetry signal, the throttle signal is disturbed and the ESC does not start, it is very likely that there is an internal short in the control unit between the two signals. In this case we suggest you to contact the physical or online store where you purchased the flight controller unit and ask them to replace the controller under warranty (free).

The delay you see when you raise the Throttle is due to a wrong setup of the Throttle Out MIN value. As stated in the instructions on the side of the "Throttle Out" panel n°12 of the Wizard, for Hobbywing ESCs, the minimum Throttle Out value must be raised from the default value of 1000us to 1100us (this value is also indicated in the Hobbywing ESC manuals). If during the initial setup, with the flight controller unit still in factory default, you had selected Hobbywing in the ESC drop down list of panel 1 of the Wizard, the MIN and MAX value would have already been automatically corrected by the software. You probably skipped this step or you did it after changing other values respect the factory default value.

In Advanced, in the Common tab, in the Throttle & Gov section, there is also the "Deadzone" parameter whose operation is explained as for all other Advanced parameters in the balloon that appears when you place the mouse over the parameter name.

Regards.


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patelparag
(@patelparag)
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Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 17
Topic starter  

Thanks Braindev:

1. Telemetry/ESC init: I changed the Ikon to a different unit (both new from package), with the same result, connect the telemetry wire, and the ESC fails to initialize. I ohmed both units out w/my DMM between all the pins on channel 1, and all the pins on the 4-5-6 input, and got very high resistance values between all pins (200+ Kohms). Short seems unlikely, unless it only occurs when powered on.

2. ESC/Throttle output: I tried out the output min/max change; and the ESC became unhappy. Apparently, I had trained the ESC endpoints. Set it back to original, and retrained the ESC/endpoints. I removed the "use governor" setting from one of the setups, and tried it with a flat-curve throttle. In this setup, the throttle does not have a delay, and (as expected) spools up fast. I meant to set up the throttle on the stick, and check for a delay in spool up that way, but I find I need to move some parts around between two helis. I'll do that experiment ASAP. Deadband setting is "0." There is still a delay with governor start up.

3. No Bailout: No change to the bailout issue.


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BrainDev
(@customercare)
Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 546
 

Better if you don't have to wait for the time to replace the FCU.
So the cause is probably due to incorrect connections and/or misconfiguration.
In order to do this, you should send the configuration file of your flight control unit, the event file and a flight log file. With these files we can check and discard hundreds of possible hypotheses.

Could it be that instead of connecting only the signal cable of the programming port as instructed, you have accidentally connected the ground signal of the programming port to the control unit or the supply voltage of the programming port to the control unit or the RPM signal? In this case, you could be screwing up the ESC's internal electronics. Could you send a picture showing what kind of connection you have made in the ESC programming port and how you have connected to the CH6 port of the control unit?

(with FrSky S.Bus+S.Port connection you must use CH6 and not CH5).

PS: To reduce start-up delays, you should not set the DeadBand to zero, but increase its value.


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patelparag
(@patelparag)
Active Member Customer
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 17
Topic starter  

Thanks Braindev:

Attached is the config file, and the events. I don't have a flight log...

 Over the weekend, I wiped the configuration, and started again; focused on the telemetry issue. I repeated the same issue, that is that the esc does not initialize when the telemetry wire is connected. Note the events may look funny, neither the fbl nor the ESC is tied down yet. Note that the ESC behavior seems to be the same with the LED program box, when connected, the ESC doesn't arm.

I have done:

1. Trained the ESC for 1000-2000uS input.

2. Seems to be a problem with the motor poles count, will figure that out later, RPMS aren't reaching where they should...

3. I checked the connections, but did not take a pic. The telemetry wire is connected to port 6, and is not crossed at the extension. It is possible I may have had the ground connected at some point, but the LED box works correctly. (just checked ESC parameters).

Are there a different instructions for the Flyfun 120A ESC? I'm not sure I made that clear in the beginning.


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patelparag
(@patelparag)
Active Member Customer
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 17
Topic starter  

Did anything come of the review of my logfiles? Still having issues.


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patelparag
(@patelparag)
Active Member Customer
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 17
Topic starter  

@customercare

Still having issues: any suggestions?


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J. McFarlin
(@jordanmcf556)
Trusted Member BetaTester
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 73
 
Posted by: @patelparag

@customercare

Still having issues: any suggestions?

Post up some pictures showing your connections as soon as possible if you can bud, that’ll help us with figuring out what is going on with your setup. Thanks bud. 

-J

J. McFarlin


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patelparag
(@patelparag)
Active Member Customer
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 17
Topic starter  

Unable to upload pics. Issue with website?


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patelparag
(@patelparag)
Active Member Customer
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 17
Topic starter  

Ok, pics attached.

1. I repeated the experiement on the bench, using both f.port and s.port.

2. I confirmed that I do get telemetry w/CC Talon.

3. I confirmed at each step that I was able to get telemetry from the FBL.

4. at each step, I waited 30 sec to 1 min to see battery voltage populate.

5. last image of each sequence is a closeup of the 4-5-6 connection.

 

I have previously confirmed that 2x fbl are able to report telemetry with HW Platinum. I used the FBL from my working heli to confirm that I am UNABLE to receive telemetry from FlyFun.

 

 

Castle Talon fport 3
Castle Talon fport 1
Castle Talon smartport 3
Castle Talon smartport 1
Castle Talon smartport 2
Castle Talon fport 2
FlyFun fport ch5 1
FlyFun smartport ch5 3
FlyFun fport ch6 3
FlyFun smartport ch5 1
Flyfun fport ch6 1
FlyFun smartport ch5 2
Flyfun fport ch6 2

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BrainDev
(@customercare)
Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 546
 

As explained in the instructions and as mentioned above, using the S.Bus + S.Port protocol, the HobbyWing ESC telemetry signal must be connected to the CH6 pin of the controller (the top pin) and not to the CH5 pin (the middle pin). The yellow motor rotation pulse wire should be connected to the GOV connector input signal pin.

Have you checked with the motor running?

As far as telemetry is concerned, the firmware version used in the FlyFun ESC corresponds to early versions of the Platinum ESCs where telemetry values are only transmitted when the motor is moving, while when the motor is stopped only configuration data of the parameter scale is transmitted.
In fact, two completely different types of telemetric frames are transmitted by ESC: Motor Standstill frame & when ESC is driving motor frame.

Unfortunately (for now) there do not appear to be any firmware updates available for the FlyFun ESCs where telemetry values are always transmitted even when the motor is stopped. On the other hand and fortunately, the Brain2 Flight Control Units still have the routine for this old type of telemetry active.
This type of telemetry is probably fine for Aircraft where the propeller is always turning from takeoff to landing. In Elys, this telemetry may also work well because the engine is always running to ensure sustain (except during autorotations, which are short-lived). It is not at all suitable for powered gliders where the propeller is stationary for longer than when it is running.
Although not 'indispensable', a firmware update for the FlyFun ESC telemetry would be desirable (by the way, the solution of the firmware routines for their Platinum ESCs has already been implemented and tested, so it is sufficient to copy the appropriate routine from the Platinum firmware into a new FlyFun firmware). However, if the request only comes from MSH Electronics, it will be difficult to implement it, also because Hobbywing would certainly prefer to sell the Platinum ESCs for Ely. The request for a new firmware with continuous telemetry should therefore come from a large number of users with powered gliders.


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patelparag
(@patelparag)
Active Member Customer
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 17
Topic starter  

Thanks Braindev. There was one gem, nowhere else have I seen the information that telemetry is only transmitted when the motor is being driven.

However, this does not seem to help me:

Archer RS; F.PORT.

Ch6

Ikon governor @ 2000, 2150 and 2300 RPM

I get telemetry for RPM and for Fuel, but not VFAS or Current (my main interest). The last flight was configured fully and correctly.

 

 

What is fuel?


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patelparag
(@patelparag)
Active Member Customer
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 17
Topic starter  

I finally heard back from Hobbywing, the way they worded their response, "it won't do that" I suspect they broke the telemetry on recently shipped ESCs. Thanks for the support..


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