While attempting to set up the Helicopter on the Bench, I am getting random
cut-outs of the Motor, and random, but extreme jittering of all the Servos.
The Helicopter is as follows:
SAB Kraken S 700
Graupner MZ-32 Tx and GR-16 Rx
KDE 700XF 535 Motor
Hobbywing 200A Opto V4.1 brand new, I literally just opened it. I bought it 10 years ago for another project.
Graupner HCM860 BB MG x3 - Cyclic
Graupner HCM880 BB MG x1 - Tail
Rx Battery is Turnigy 2S 2600 MAH direct to Ikon2 HD
Flight Batteries are 2x Turnigy 6S 5500 MAH
The Ikon2 HD is mounted on the elevated FBL Platform (using the 4 provided Rubber Soft Mounts), and the SAB Manual recommended 2mm of Mounting Tape. I used the two Squares of the MSH provided Tape.
ESC Telemetry is showing in Transmitter, via Rx Telemetry output.
Hobbywing SCM Module used between ESC and Ikon2. "P" Side Voltage and Ground on the output of the SCM is supplied by the GOV Port + and - Pins. The Output "P" Wire from the SCM is in Pin 5 of the 4-5-6 Port. Output from Data Port of ESC to SCM provides ESC Voltage and "P" Signal to ESC Input side of SCM.
The GOV Wire, (Orange) from the HW ESC Throttle Wire (4 wire bundle) is in Ikon2 GOV Port, other three Wires (Connector) are in CH-1 for Throttle Control.
The Motor is responding to Governor Settings, which were set at 1800, 1900, and 2000. Motor Temp on the Bench is 138 Deg. ESC Temp is 86 Deg.
ESC is in Airplane Mode, Voltage Cutoff and Active Freewheel are Disabled. Startup Power is set to 1. Other settings are either defaults or adjusted as necessary for this setup.
I'm beginning to think either the KDE Motor is giving off too many Vibrations, and that there is also possibly an issue with the Hobbywing V4.1 ESC, despite it being on their latest Firmware. I have read about these issues in Helifreak, regarding the 200A Ver 4.0 ESC, but I believe the issues were not fixed in the Ver 4.1 ESC either. Can you confirm either way please, before I spend money for a new Motor and ESC? Something in this setup is giving me fits, and I'm not sure if it's a single point of failure, or multiple issues. Please let me know if you need any other Logs or something specifically done to diagnose this. Thank you very much, in advance.
**EDIT** I just re-ran the Test with the Real-Time Analysis, and this is the XML File for that. None of the Sticks were touched. The only thing I changed during this Test was the Governor Speed, with the IU Switch. The Motor Temp never surpassed 153 Deg F, and the ESC never went over 98 Deg F.
Harry Strain.
Hi
You mention that you’re performing the initial bench setup on a new model.
However, we see that your flight controller was activated on Sunday, July 31, 2022, at 7:12:56 AM and has already logged 58 flights totaling 5 hours, 2 minutes, and 52 seconds.
We therefore assume that the flight controller has been operating without issues for the past four years.
From the log “Recorded Log number 92 - BRAIN2 3.4.276” and the configuration file you sent us, everything appears to be in order, including the motor RPMs, which are stable.
So, based on the same log, the ESC and motor do not seem to have any problems.
However, in the log “Throttle_Cuts_and_Servo_Jittering_RealTime,” we see from the “RxFrameRate” curve that radio signal reception appears to have major issues, and during periods of signal degradation and frame loss, there is interference on the RxPitch, RxThrottle, and Active Setup selection signals.
When the “RxFrameRate” curve is stable and clean, there is no interference on the RxPitch, RxThrottle, and Active Setup selection signals.
There therefore appears to be an issue with the radio connection between the transmitter and receiver and/or between the receiver and the flight controller.
Have you used this same transmitter and receiver before, or are they new?
Have you tried rebinding the transmitter and receiver?
Is the transmitter’s firmware updated to the latest version released by the transmitter manufacturer?
Is the receiver’s firmware updated to the latest version released by the receiver manufacturer?
Have you checked the connector connections running from the receiver to the flight controller?
Have you checked the connections of the connectors going from the receiver to the flight controller?
Are you sure you disconnected the positive (3.3V) connection from the wire going to the SAT1 connector on the flight controller so that it doesn’t short-circuit with the positive of the other connection (8V from the 2S LiPo) through the receiver?
Could it be that you’re holding the transmitter’s antenna too close to the receiver’s two antennas, causing radio signal saturation that the receiver’s automatic gain control (AGC) can’t manage and reduce?
Could it be that the receiver’s antennas are running too close to the power cables (Lipo battery => ESC => Motor), causing crosstalk issues?
Have you checked with a multimeter that the electrical resistance between the metal parts of the tail assembly and the motor and/or the model’s frame is zero, so that electrostatic charges cannot build up during the movement of the drive belt?
Thank you BrainDev for your analysis.
This Ikon2 HD is new to me, and I haven't flown it yet. The other Flights are from the previous Owner.
While working with the Logs today (for the first time since I've owned any of the 9 Brain2 Units I have), I think I figured out how to clear them from the Unit, before extracting the Jitter Test Log I posted. The Log #92 was the highest number in there at the time, and it was my assumption that that was most likely the most recent one. I have no doubt that the Ikon is fine. This is why I continue to buy and use the Brain2/Ikon2 Controllers. You Gents make an awesome product!
You are correct, I had the Graupner MZ-32 Tx on the Bench, near the Helicopter Fuselage while testing. The Antenna of the Tx was probably about 1.5 to 2 feet from the Rx Antennas. In the future, I will increase this distance, to mitigate any RF saturation issues. I have never had issues with this before, but there's always a first time.
The Transmitter, Receiver, Ikon2, and Hobbywing ESC are all updated to the most current revisions of their Software. I have owned all of my Graupner Equipment since 2018, when i switched from Futaba on 72 MHz. After an extensive break from the hobby, I am going back through all of my Models and updating, then reviewing setups and completing any mechanical checks and maintenance.
This particular model is new to me. the Motor is older, previously bought used, but I have never flown it. I had problems with it running very hot in another Model I was setting up (10 years ago), with a Graupner ESC, so I switched it for a Scorpion, and left it for another project. those same problems seem to be resurfacing using the Hobbywing V4.1 ESC, along with other previously well documented issues, specific to the Hobbywing V4.1.
The Tx and Rx have both been used, and function well. They were bound initially for this Model, then un-bound and re-bound IAW the Brain Setup Wizard Steps.
Connections to from the Rx to the Ikon2 are good, new Wires and Connectors, and I did snip the Red Wire on the SAT1 extension from the GR-16 CH-8 port to the SAT1 JST Cable. There is no Rx Voltage present at the SAT1 Port.
The Receiver is mounted on the extension Plate provided by SAB, with the Antennas in the forward direction. The Antennas exit the centerline of the Boom on either side, forward of the boom, aft of the Canopy, between the "split" present on the Kraken 700. The Rx does sit over the top of both sides of the Tail Belt though, which is an interesting point you raised. i will use a Multimeter, connected to both the Tail Rotor Case, and the Motor Mount Assembly, and check both resistance and voltage, with the Motor on, and off. I have read about the Tail Belt generating static charges, similar to a Van De Graf Machine, but haven't placed much stock in it, due to the amount of counter-posts claiming that there were no issues with it. Personally, I've never experienced this, but anything is possible. If it appears, I will attempt to use some kind of Silicone Belt Dressing to mitigate it, and perhaps a ground wire of sorts.
"However, in the log “Throttle_Cuts_and_Servo_Jittering_RealTime,” we see from the “RxFrameRate” curve that radio signal reception appears to have major issues, and during periods of signal degradation and frame loss, there is interference on the RxPitch, RxThrottle, and Active Setup selection signals.
When the “RxFrameRate” curve is stable and clean, there is no interference on the RxPitch, RxThrottle, and Active Setup selection signals."
I'm guessing that this interference might perhaps trigger some kind of failsafe that would temporarily shut down the Motor, or send the ESC a shutdown signal, then when it clears up, the Motor would automatically re-start? If this is the case, then the entire problem im experiencing is due to interference, quite possibly from the Signal Saturation you spoke of? The Servos Jittering, and moving themselves (pitch, cyclic, tail) would also be a symptom of this interference?
i will address each of these Points and post back with the results and resolution. Again, I thank you for your time and analysis. You're the best!
Harry Strain
Regarding the issue of a possible fail-safe and the resulting shutdown of the ESC (and a slow restart of the ESC if you’ve programmed it in “External Governor” mode, or a fast restart if you have programmed the ESC in Airplane mode and enabled Autorotation Bailout), you could check the Events (the file of which you did not send) to see if there are any events indicating that a Fail Safe occurred and the corresponding Throttle Fail Safe during the Real-Time recording.
Have you tried moving, pulling, and pushing each of the cables connected to the flight controller, as well as the cables connected to the receiver?
(small movements of the flight controller generate small movements detected by the gyroscopes, which can cause slight movements of the servos—and this is normal)